Yesterday I wrote a post called the Burden of Proof Lies With The Claimant in which I talked about the burden of proof and who is responsible for it, namely the person making the claim or complaint. I talked about how theists believe in a god, so it’s up to them to prove that god exists, since it’s an extraordinary claim which requires extraordinary evidence, none of which has ever been forthcoming.
The first comment I got on the post was from a man named Brian. When I got up this morning and read his comment I was inspired to reply. After a few minutes I realized my response was quite lengthy and decided a follow-up post was in order. After his comment you’ll find my thoughts. So here is his comment in its entirety:
There are a string of points here, but let’s just just address one of them which is the position of unbelief.
You see the world though a pair of glasses of unbelief. Everything is skewed and interpreted from that framework.
My guess is that your belief that God does not exist is so strong that you would not change that under any circumstances.
If God turned the sea into blood, swiped the stars from the sky, turned the moon blood red and blocked out the light of the sun (which is exactly what He WILL do) there will be millions of people that STILL refuse to believe what the Bible says.
They’ll try to find “scientific” reasons for the supernatural occurances and put off believing indefinitely while they try to figure it out. Why? Because they don’t believe.
God has already performed supernatural signs and wonders which were beheld by numerous eye-witnesses and recorded in the Bible…but that’s not good enough for the non-believers. They FIND reasons to write that off.
They frame people that lives 2000-4000 years ago as primitive, superstitious idiots who were one step away from being cavemen and their accounts of anything cannot be trusted.
However, along these lines of thinking, in 2000 years from NOW the people that will be living will consider US to be idiots that were one step away from being cavemen!
So even if God decided to bend to your “demand’ of Him for a series of supernatural signs and you had a change of heart and wrote down and enshrined forever your eye-witness experience…your words would be just those of a dead nutter who obviously was clinging to her religion.
This would necessitate a CONSTANT and CONTINUAL “requirement” that God continually reveal Himself in supernatural ways to each and every generation.
But why stop there? Why not require God to come down and have a one-on-one with each and every person? After all, he is omnipresent and all-powerful. Why not it to Him that he should have to have a face-to-face with everyone on their 13th birthday and tell them that yes, indeed, the Bible is His Word, take them on a 1-minute tour of heaven to experience the glory and then drop them for a 1 minute tour of Hell so they could experience the pain, then let them make their decision from there.
The essential problem with the burden of proof argument you have going is that people don’t WANT to believe…no amount of evidence could satisfy.
Extraordinary signs and wonders would be reasoned away, as would a personal interview with God Himself.
Thanks for your comment, Brian. I disagree with you. I do not see the world through glasses of unbelief. I believe in a lot of things, like E=mc2, gravity, and all kinds of good things. I see the world as it is, rationally and sensibly. That’s the difference. I don’t have any glasses on. Nothing is skewing my vision. Good analogy though. That’s how religious people see the world, skewed through coke bottle thick glasses of faith, stamped to their heads by religious leaders who seek to control them through fear and hope of reward after they die.
I don’t have a belief that there is no god. You are skewing what I wrote based on your own flawed system. There is no god to believe in or not believe in. And your guess is totally wrong as well.
Let’s take just little ol’ me. I’m an atheist and a skeptic. I embrace the scientific method which means that I am rather open to just about anything, as long as it’s unbiased, provable, verifiable, and reproducible. I am also comfortable with the idea that we have so much more to learn about the natural world. We know tons more than we did even a hundred years ago, And we have a bright future ahead of us, as well.
So let’s say oh, I dunno, I’m cooking dinner, and your god decides it’s time to pay a visit and let me know he is real. He magically appears in my kitchen and says, “Hi Neece, I’m GOD and I just wanted to pop in and let you know I exist.” You say that even if god did that, I wouldn’t believe in him.
In some ways you’re right and in others you’re wrong. At first, I would certainly want to examine my mental health. Your god would understand this, as there are people in the world who have hallucinations of all sorts and think that god or the devil is talking to them, when in fact they have a brain disorder or mental illness.
Then, yes, god would have to perform some miracles for me. Why? Because that would help me prove he’s a god. They’d have to be pretty darn convincing, and he’d have to do them for my friends as well as a panel of scientists, to prove that other people can experience him and he’s not just my crazy imagination. The results would have to be proven using the scientific method, and god would totally understand it and be willing to do it.
During this time of testing, I’d also ask him a bunch of questions to which I’d expect good solid answers. My first one would probably be, “why me? why now? and why have you waited so long to let us know you exist?” Your god would have perfect answers to these questions and be quite happy to answer them all.
If god did all those things and science proved he exists, I’d be willing to accept that your god is the real deal, because the evidence would warrant it.
If god took the route you claim where he would just obliterate the stars in a violent swipe of his mighty hand (why does god even need a hand, I wonder), if he turned the sea to blood, and turned the moon blood red, plus all the other armaggedon nonsense, and it happened all at once, I think after a bunch of panicking and general mayhem, scientists would search for answers as fast as possible to such sudden chaos. That’s what scientists do. Scientists don’t just fall on the ground and believe in fairy tales simply because they are scared and don’t understand something. They investigate, they ask tough questions, they look for objective answers.
If god took the armageddon route, he’d be a total asshole, by the way, in my humble opinion. Why? Because there has never been a miracle in the life of anyone living. Why come on so hot and heavy all of a sudden with the nastiness?
On a side note, Brian, if you were taking a shower one day and suddenly the water got colder and a wind blew up in the bathroom and you saw, but didn’t quite see, an invisible pink unicorn standing there in all her glory, and she talked to you saying, “Hi, Brian, how are you today? Oh, look, you dropped the soap. I don’t have thumbs so I won’t pick it up for you. Anyhoo, I just wanted to let you know I am the one true god and your god is a ridiculous myth. Would you instantly believe? Would you fall on your knees in your shower and worship the Unicorn in all her invisible pink glory?
Unicorns are mentioned in the bible, so maybe you’d be more apt to fall down in worship without hesitation, but personally, I’d still like verification that I hadn’t just popped a blood vessel in my brain and wasn’t suffering from delusions and hallucinations.
You say the god of the bible did supernatural signs and wonders for people back in biblical times. First, only the old testament ever talks about Abraham’s god actually interacting with people and performing supernatural feats. The new testament was written later, and god didn’t interact with anyone anymore. Only jesus did miracles and spoke vaguely of his father, and the father. Which would lead me to ask, why is there not one single corroborating text or reference, outside of the bible, to this jesus fellow? The Romans were meticulous record keepers. It lends credence to the idea that he never existed. In fact the 4 gospels were written 40-80 years after the supposed death of jesus, which again, was never documented in any other text. Very telling, if you ask me.
I would concur that people living 2000 or more years ago were pretty damned primitive. They would have thought the earth was flat, and if you read your bible, you’ll find that they had a lot of strange ideas of how things happened in the natural world. That’s ok, they didn’t understand what they were seeing and experiencing. They created miracles and magic to explain whatever they didn’t understand. Taken in that light, the bible can be used as a tool for historians to see how people lived and thought way back then.
But to give credence to those people as having knowledge greater than the collective knowledge of today is downright silly. Why did god only talk to people in the middle east? He created the whole world. Why would he only focus on the Fertile Crescent? What about all the Chinese, Indians, and the rest of Africa and wherever else humans had wandered to by then? Why only try to save the Fertile Crescent folks with his son? Why not have several sons and/or daughters for each area that would save China, India, etc? It makes no sense. You’ve lost your ability to think and reason, if you ever were allowed to have it in the first place.
In 2000 years, people will look back (if we haven’t killed ourselves off in some stupid way by then) on us here at the turn of the 21st century as backwards and rather dumb. Imagine what they’ll look back on the Iron and Bronze age middle eastern folks and think.
The thing is, a lot of people today try to build on all that has been learned before us. We try to understand history, science, math, the natural world, the world we are making today, all of it, in context and objectively as it evolves and grows.
Then there are huge numbers of people who cling to some ancient past, namely the middle eastern view from the time of Abraham, Jesus or Mohammed. For some reason their god stopped developing back then, and they are stuck in one book. Each group has their own book that is the be-all end-all text by which they must live. Full of Bronze and Iron age violence, hatred, morals and politics. That is completely crazy, if you ask me. I think in 2000 years the ancient god of Mesopotamia, in any of his three forms, will hopefully have died away and become another silly myth that will be studied and marveled at by students, historians and scientists. People who believed in that will be thought of as completely crazy, and the future folks will wonder why rational people would let those crazy people hold public offices, dictate policies in politics and government, and even have been allowed to have children they poisoned with such mindless fairy tales.
I am not demanding that your god do anything to prove himself to me. I’m simply saying, if a god exists, there is zero evidence of that anywhere. So if that god wanted me, personally, to suddenly believe in him or her, that god would understand why I would request proof. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The Invisible Pink Unicorn or your god or the Flying Spaghetti Monster have yet to show themselves to anyone or provide any evidence in the real world, here and now.
Personally I agree with you. If your god did prove to me that he exists and I fell on my knees and worshiped and enshrined him (which I don’t think any real god would be interested in. How utterly vain and human is that?) I would really be amazed if 2000 years from now, if that same god never did anything again, that people in the future would just automatically believe my accounts. I would be just a dead nutter clinging to my religion.
Then again, I am under the impression from what your comment that you believe in the half articulate drivel of dead nutters from 2000+ years ago one hundred percent. So much so that you and a lot of your fellow christians deny a lot of what we’ve learned of this wonderful planet and the life encompassing it since then. That’s completely bonkers, in my opinion.
If a god exists, and he or she wants to have people believe in him or her, and requires devotion, worship and sacrifices, all of which are base human emotions of a megalomaniac tyrant, then such a god needs to be active in the world, needs to be available and evident to most people. If a god is omnipotent and omnipresent, then it would be no big deal to do that. Why can’t he or she be more active? Because there is no god.
So onto your idea of god coming down (so you believe heaven is above you in the clouds? Where exactly is that? Why haven’t we seen heaven when we fly planes up there above the clouds? Why hasn’t the space shuttle seen it? That’s right, because it’s a figment of the imaginations of long dead nutters) and talking to us one-on-one. I especially like the idea of god giving us a nice 13th birthday audience and tour of heaven and hell. That’s actually quite clever and funny. That would be a great idea for god.
Of course, my first concern is for the children who die of cancer at age 4 or something similar. They never get to know god? That’s pretty lousy of god to let that happen, if you ask me.
This god of yours is pretty terrible at his job. Personally I think he is a crummy god. He’s screwed up from the beginning and for the last 2000 years, he’s totally lost interest in his toys creations. Even if he did exist I seriously can’t imagine worshiping him.
You’re so wrong. You don’t understand what it’s like to think for yourself, to be rational. I know a lot of atheists. The atheists I know that are skeptics would most likely happily embrace the supernatural if it was proven to exist. I wouldn’t go so far as to say we’d all worship your god if he finally showed up and took some personal responsibility and let us prove his existence. In fact, like I said earlier, I think I’d want to hang out with your god, have discussions and argue with him, but I wouldn’t worship him.
Sure it would be nice to believe in fancy cool stuff like gods, aliens, fairies, pink unicorns, leprechauns, hobbits and the like. If they existed I’d believe in them. Just like I believe in gravity, rainbows as a natural phenomenon, the sun, the earth rotating around it, the stars, and on and on.
Logic is not a bad thing. Any real god would understand and embrace free thinking individuals. What god would be interested in fawning, obsequious, mindless, automatons that blindly worship, and just as blindly hate other humans who worship a different face of the same god? How boring, how human. A god that would demand such from his or her creations is simply the figment of the imagination of a mindless, frightened people, unable to think, reason or live without a bigger than life father figure towering over them, completely unavailable, yet still telling them what to do and how to live and how to think. Atheists do not need that invisible, nonexistent father figure to live and prosper.
finally, you have no idea how often people ask how i can believe in nothing as an atheist… it isn’t believing in nothing, it is just not believing. one less god. they are so quick to throw the rest away, yet can’t comprehend going one step further.
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Neece Reply:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Hey mac attack, you got it! There is a world of difference between being an unbeliever who believes in nothing (would that be a true nihilist?) and an atheist who simply believes that gods don’t exist because there is zero evidence of any gods. That’s common sense, something that I feel is lost when indoctrinated into mindless religious dogma.
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Wonderfully written post Neece!
However, I am rather disappointed and a little offended in you that you imply that his Holiness, the Flying Spagetti Monster in all his Glorious Saucyness is not real. His Holy Wiggly Appendage of Justice will smite you in the afterlife for such words, and you will be damned for an eternity of torture in the Fiery Cooking Pot if you don’t amend your statements. I only warn you to change your ways because I care of course, that and his Holiness the FSM awards alleluia points for each soul I save to be redeemed for neat prizes in the afterlife, like T-shirts and such. And I do wants me some neat prizes.
All preaching aside, I really hope Brian at least considers your argument and asks himself a few tough questions about his “faith.”
Frankly, atheism is the best thing that’s ever happened me. Atheism comes with a clarity and appreciation in life that I have never felt with religion. I am a much better person for it.
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Neece Reply:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Thanks for commenting and the compliment, Ann!
Please don’t be offended, though, Gentle Ann. For if you go over my post again, you’ll find that I never once suggested that the FSM in all his Glorious Saucyness was not real. I did mention that the FSM has never shown himself to anyone, lumping him in with a couple other gods.
That was wrong of me, and I’m sorry for my ignorance. The majestic FSM has never shown himself to ME, that is what I should have said.
Since you are the first to offer me salvation in the wiggly appendages of his great Saucyness, I will take you up on your offer. I hope you get a great t-shirt for your kind offer.
Do I get anything? Any earthly rewards? And can you send in a picture to heavingdeadcats@gmail.com of you wearing your t-shirt prize, please? That would be super special.
I would love to hear Brian’s reply. I hope he does at least read what I wrote and let himself think about it.
I agree with you, atheism rocks! It has helped me go even further to becoming a skeptic, where no rose colored glasses, thick with lies, are needed. I agree, we’re both much better people for it.
Thanks for stopping by. Keep in touch, since you converted me. Are you like my sponsor now? Do we get together in seedy diners and drink bad, stale coffee and smoke cigarettes and talk about the awesome FSM? Ok, no cigarettes, that’s just nasty.
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Nice post, Neece. Three things…
1. If a god existed, it should know what it takes to convince an unbeliever. How awesome would that be for one to show up in your kitchen? “Hey, I’m god. Can I help you with those chocolate chip cookies?”
2. I’ve never heard the pink unicorn analogy put quite that way- Pure-D awesome. I’m not sure I’d want her telling me about the soap thing. Awfully sharp horn there…
3. Actually, the Greeks knew that the Earth was round 2000 years ago- Aristotle proved a spherical Earth (330BCE), Eratosthenes figured out the Earth’s circumference (240BCE) and by the first century Pliny the elder was able to make the claim that most of the educated populace agreed on a spherical Earth. The funny thing about that was there were some ongoing arguments about whether there were people on the other side of the planet, and what they might be like if they existed. Of course, that doesn’t change the fact that they were superstitious and ignorant about a great many things.
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Neece Reply:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Hey Steve, welcome back!
1. I totally agree. Only the god showing up in my kitchen better be quick with Really helping, not just wanting to lick the bowl and stuff. I get enough of that kind of underfoot, in the way helping with my two crazy dogs.
2. Thanks. Yeah, while she’s amazing and pink while also being invisible, she doesn’t have thumbs, which is a sore spot with her in her goddessness. But she compensates.. sometimes in unpleasant ways.
3. Thanks for clarifying! The Greeks were some pretty freaking cool dudes. Can you imagine where we’d be if .. oh which was it, the huge library they had, if that hadn’t have been burned and destroyed, and if the Dark Ages (yeah, thanks christians, another way you helped screw everything up for everybody) hadn’t happened? I bet I’d have a robot then, and a flying car!
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Steve Reply:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Thanks. I just found your site and I really like your posts.
1. Now see, by helping, I meant consuming. Right?
2. Ouch!
3. Yeah. I can’t imagine anything worse than abandoning knowledge. The economy, yeah it’s bad, and it might be horrible for the next ten to twenty. We get a new president every eight years, so damage repair takes place fairly often. But to actively destroy the aggregate knowledge of an entire culture is without an undo button and, in my opinion, inherently evil.
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Neece Reply:
December 12th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
3. Yes, destroying knowledge and or hoarding it while trying to keep people ignorant is quite evil.
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Neece Reply:
December 13th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
I can’t believe I forgot to say thank you very much for number 1. I’m glad you like my posts.
I love your comments! 
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I must admit, I stopped reading after two lines of your reply because it was offending me so much, so stop here if you already know that this will annoy you. That said, I am a staunch atheist, and I have been for as long as I can remember, but you seem to be simply dismissing Brian’s point on the basis of “no, I’m not biased because I say I’m not biased”. This is exactly what so many atheists find offensive about many religious people. You can’t simply dismiss points because you don’t like them, you have to actually respond with evidence. If your evidence is the Bible, that’s fine, that’s your belief, I just may not choose to accept it. But you are the absolute worst possible judge of your own alleged lack of bias.
I freely admit that I am biased in favor of atheism, much like I expect my favorite sports teams to win even when statistics might indicate otherwise. (Go ahead, point out that I just analyzed my bias, but at least I’m admitting it.)
…Sorry, stopped to skim the rest of your post now that I’ve had a break, and I still find it offensive…
As I was saying, of course I would place a high bar for proof of God’s existence, much like I would place a high bar for proof of a radical new physical theory. Now, I would like to think that confronted with something as dramatic as spontaneous levitation of a car or seas turning chemically to blood, I would recognize that something bigger than just physics was at work. (Of course, unless it happens, there’s no way to know for sure.) I don’t know if I would turn to religion or to some new scientific theory to explain it, but any radical change in the world requires a radical change in belief systems.
So to wrap up, let me remind you of the golden rule (which long predates the Bible, by the way, so don’t come complaining that I’m quoting Bible passages): do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This is an excellent rule to live by for everyone, atheists and religious people, Jews and Muslims, Protestants and Catholics. If you expect to have your ideas treated with respect, the very least you can do is respect the ideas of others.
Have a good day.
Oh, and on an unrelated note, to the webmaster: you have two “Notify me of follow-up comments via e-mail” checkboxes when replying to posts, one with and one without the hyphen in follow-up.
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Neece Reply:
January 14th, 2009 at 6:51 am
Alec,
First, if you only read two lines of my reply, you’re unqualified to leave a comment.
This post has nothing to do with bias, so again, I claim that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
If there is a god, I agree with my friend Steve who said (in comment 3), “If a god existed, it should know what it takes to convince an unbeliever.” So if a god exists, I would like that god to prove itself to me. Otherwise, I’m placing my bet on science. So far just about everything that has ever happened in the world can be explained by science. The exceptions are things like the Big Bang and how life first began, but even there we are making progress. Science works for me.
So your rant about the seas turning chemically to blood (that makes no sense, but neither does most of your comment) is your personal take on things. That’s fine with me. I don’t care what you’d do if something different happened in your world.
I am at a loss as to how you, a supposed staunch atheist, could be so deeply offended by my post. You didn’t even read it. The only explanation I can think of is that you are Brian’s friend and he got his tender little feelings hurt by my post so you decided to try to leave a nasty comment to defend his honor. Sorry, you failed. In the future, take your own advice and practice the golden and silver rules. And if you decide to try to tear someone apart, at least find out what the topic is. I seriously doubt you’re an atheist. You write like a mindless fundie xian.
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“Sure it would be nice to believe in fancy cool stuff like gods, aliens,”
I’m sorry if I derail this but here goes. Why do aliens get thrown in with the other? Aliens are the same as us. Naturally occurring biological organisms that just happen to be on a different planet. It seems likely based on the sheer number of planets that life would have evolved elsewhere.
Wow, I gotta got to bed it took like ten tries to spell half the words here.
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Neece Reply:
February 26th, 2009 at 5:51 am
Aliens are the same as us? How would you know that?
When I was talking about aliens I meant the little green men that stick anal probes up the bottoms of certain people. There’s no evidence of intelligent life. Yet. I’m totally open to the fact that there might be but I’ll need proof, just like everything else. So far all we have are conspiracy theories.
On the other hand, there is a much more real possibility for bacteria or other strange forms of life on other planets. That is something that would be totally fascinating. I am definitely paying attention to what’s going on with that in the world of science.
But still, it makes no sense to say that “aliens are the same as us” because then they wouldn’t be aliens. Not to mention the statement is totally unfounded in any type of reality.
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It’s one thing to believe that aliens exist. It’s quite another to believe they’ve made contact with us. I’m pretty sure that the aliens thing was more in line with alien abductions or cow mutilations and that is, in my opinion, pretty silly.
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Neece Reply:
February 26th, 2009 at 5:57 am
Yes, Steve. I was referring to anal probes and little green men, and all the typical conspiracy nonsense. I have no idea if there is intelligent life out there. Neither does anyone else.
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Neece,great writing,logic,and original examples…..you’re a dragonslayer when it comes to debating irrationality-I’m in awe….as I am of course toward the most scientific of religions,flyingspaghettimonsterism. Smiles and wet noodles!
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Neece Reply:
March 3rd, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Thanks so much, Tim. But I have to say, while I respect your Flying Spaghetti Monster, he does not hold a candle to my great and magnificent Invisible Pink Unicorn, may she dash your saucy god to savory bits with her holy pink hooves! LOL!
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Ok… here is the thing. You guys have not responded to one of my posts. I have answered one riddle at least ten times and you have no response. neece. this is for you. alot of what you blab about you just hear from your friends right? you have no idea what the fuck is going on. God is god. he has to convince you of both jack and shit. Why do you think jesus came? So that noone could say god did not exist. the new testament is one of the most widely used books in the world and has historic relevance at the least as a history….. You’re saying its science fiction? god made you. god made your ancestors. In 7 thousand years humans have killed eachother, hurt eachother, used and enslaved eachother, tortured eachother, raped, assaulted, robbed, lied, stolen,abused, hated etc eachother. He did not make us to do that. He set forth rules. He reprimanded. he allowed us to learn for ourselves. Now you want him to show up at your house and lead you hand and foot to happiness. gawdamn. r you disabled? r u like that cristopher hawking guy? thats why you need so much special attention. god doesnt have to show you anything. He gave you his son to show his love. he said this is the way and follow it for everlasting life. that was the last chance dumbass. he was saying “Im not gonna do it all for you. you disobeyed and these are the results. If you want to do right though in an imperfect world you will be rewarded later.” that is the whole concept of the bible. feel free to correct any of my answers to any of your posts. waiting to hear back from you
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GMNightmare Reply:
February 21st, 2010 at 4:40 am
Yeah, it takes time to post to your drivel. I know, you just say whatever random thing pops into your head contradictory or not, we don’t. You’ve answered zero riddles, by the way.
I believe the truth is, you haven’t a bloody clue what the hell is going on. You don’t even seem to fully know what you believe. You don’t even know what your own religion beliefs, much less even looked into things for yourself.
First off, Jesus didn’t come so that people could say god exists. Get a clue man! It’s the main tenant of your religion, if you can’t even get that right what the hell are you even talking for? Can you not even remember that god supposedly gave you free will and thus gives zero evidence for his existence? Like every believer typically knows that. Look it up.
“In 7 thousand years humans have killed eachother, hurt eachother, used and enslaved eachother, tortured eachother, raped, assaulted, robbed, lied, stolen,abused, hated etc eachother. He did not make us to do that.”
Have you read the bible? I mean really read it, because you’re wrong. god completely condones slavery, torture, murder, assault, thievery, deception, and definitely abuse. He commands it throughout the bible. Furthermore, if we are doing it, we had to be created that way. Are you saying god couldn’t get a single creation right?
“Now you want him to show up at your house and lead you hand and foot to happiness.”
No, that’s what you and your fellow thickheaded theists want. That’s why you pray, and worship, and blow each other up because their god is the wrong god. That’s what you want, a heaven after this life because you can’t even live it. That’s what you want, just because your scared and don’t want to accept that this life is all you have. In fact, were quite happy without your god. Your god is one screwed up character, completely evil and malevolent.
For five bloody seconds, think of what the hell you are saying, just think. Stop rambling nonsense, and hell, go post your BS on a theist forum so other theists can ripe you apart. That’s right, your fellow believers would have a field day with you, you are a heathen heretic to them. Just go to them and have you brainwashed a little more. Honestly. You seriously, don’t know a bloody thing about your own religion.
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Julian Reply:
April 26th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Christopher Reeve, or Steven Hawking? Either way, both have contributed more to this world’s progress than the god of the old testament who would — according to your own teachings — so willingly kill off nearly the entire population of the planet, human, plant, animal, etc to punish humans behaving as humans do. If this god truly wanted humans to behave peacefully, he would reveal himself or do *something* in a way that stopped all of this mindless slaughter of innocent bystanders and civilians.
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Neece Reply:
April 28th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
I agree, Julian. If this god existed, he’d have a lot of explaining to do.
But he doesn’t. Of course that doesn’t stop people killing and raping in his name.
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What if…
the monadic “god” (God the Father, Allah, whatever) were something better defined as an “archetype” rather than the supreme authority?
there are infinite god/archetypes creating us AS we are creating them, and who co-create the universe along w us?
what if the separation of cause and effect is only an illusion?
the God that the author talks about walking into his kitchen has already arrived in the form of a friend or a pet or ray of sun through the window?
[god coming into the kitchen and saying "can I help you with those cookies" is presented by one commenter as ironic. But if this offer is presented in love from another being, that IS God/The All/The Absolute, no matter what physical form it takes.]
god can better be described as The Absolute or The All (which cannot truly be named)?
everyone who says there is no god really just means that he will not bow down before the vengeful father figure archetype who lives in the sky and was created by religious zealots? (Cheers to that!)
god is not a man or archetype, but rather the force of love (ie God = Love, or to use a more encompassing term, The All = Love)?
I cannot help but love you all. Thank you for spending brain power on this. Perhaps the world can use it.
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Julian Reply:
June 15th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
So, to summarize, you consider “god” to be the personification of good/niceness/humanity. If so, then it makes more sense to simply realize that some people are good, and some are not, regardless of the existence of a “god” personification.
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Neece Reply:
June 16th, 2010 at 11:19 pm
You’ve redefined god to be anything you like, anything that you want it to be, without any kind of evidence or proof. It’s all wishful thinking and fantasy, with nothing substantial or factual. It’s touchy-feely feel good nonsense. And if people call you on your definition, you’ll just move the goalpost and change it to something less less verifiable.
If it makes you feel better, that’s fine, but there’s absolutely no reason to call it god, which
“holy” texts define very differently than this.
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