(Listening to the audio version. Excellent!)
(Very interesting, quite different. Written by Carl Sagan's son, Nick)
(my favorite atheist book so far)
(It made me LOL)
(It sucked me in. Fun and funny.)
(movie was much better)
(best trilogy I've ever read!)
(very clever satire from the headlines. cynical but funny)
(gritty, violent, excellent retribution!)
(BBC series. Good acting, 80's low budget effects)
(good movie, much better than the book)
If you read the old testament, you will soon come to realize that god was jealous because he hated his competition. This is interesting because he went to so much trouble to be the “one god” for Abraham and his “chosen” people.
Thousands of years later, though, billions of people believe it as gospel truth that there is one god and that it’s always been that way.
As a side note, I also find it irritating and interesting that christians cherry pick so much of what they believe, and conveniently write off the rest of the bible, their one and only book. For example, exodus contains the 10 commandments. So they choose to follow those. And genesis contains the infamous beginnings of the universe and creation of man nonsense. They love that stuff too. But all the ridiculous and petty rules from leviticus are dismissed. Funny how that works.
But I digress.
There are 13 instances in the entire bible that say that there is only one god. Some of those are a bit weak, though. Like Deuteronomy 32:39 – See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me.
When you have to go to the trouble to say you’re the only god and you’re alone, that just screams of really trying very hard to convince someone. A lot of the other quotes are in the same kind of vein.
Now, you might be wondering why I’d care if there were lots of gods or just one. I don’t believe in any of them. But it matters to me in the sense that millions of people have been killed and tortured, wars have been waged, atrocities committed, and on and on, all in the name of the “one true god”. To me, this is just another instance that shows the errancy of the bible, flawed because angry men in ancient, barbaric, superstitious times wrote them. There certainly is nothing divine or holy there.
In the old testament, there are 34 instances of gods in the plural sense. In the new testament, there are 2. Most of them are about how the people must follow the one god and ignore the rest. But, this begs the question, if god himself is telling you to ignore all the other gods, isn’t that pretty much admitting that the other gods are there? No wonder he’s jealous! He’s totally insecure!
That makes sense, too. Because god didn’t hold up his end of the bargain lots of times for the jews. He constantly went back on his word in the old testament. I have no idea why the jews didn’t just get rid of him, considering how much he sucked, and still does. He certainly doesn’t help them out. Oh wait, that’s because he doesn’t exist. Ok, never mind.
If you go back in time to ancient times, you’ll find that people would worship just about anything if they superstitiously felt it helped them. The sun shone down upon me, let’s worship it. That mountain seems strong and provided food for my goats, let’s sacrifice a goat to it to say thanks. That cloud gave me rain, let’s worship the clouds.
Then along came Abraham who decided to make a contract with one particular mountain god. That god was a complete jerk, making poor Abe almost kill his son as a test. But Abe thought he was going to be a good asset so he made a deal with him.
Now we’re stuck with zillions of people believing this ancient desert god who is jealous, petty, angry, and childish is the one main god that has survived since that time. Thanks, but no thanks.
But with a bit of science and common sense, smart people can see that a mountain is just a mountain, that the sun is just a star, and that no evidence exists for any god. Not one shred.
To see all the god vs. gods quotes on one convenient page with links, go to my fav bible, The Skeptics Annotated bible.
By the way, sorry for the delay in posting. I had to reinstall windows on my computer as I was getting the blue screen of death. Never a fun process.
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The Biblical evidence for “one god” gets even muddier if one looks at the original Hebrew. For instance, one of the words translated as “God” in English versions is Elohim, which is plural. And look at Deuteronomy 32:8-9. The chief diety, El Elyon, (translated as “the Most High”) divides up the tribes of people and gives each tribe to a different one of his offspring. Yahweh (translated as “the LORD”) inherits the tribe headed by Jacob. In modern translations, El Elyon and Yahweh just become different names for God, and apparently God is inheriting a portion of his own people from himself.
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Neece Reply:
December 29th, 2008 at 2:12 am
Hi Eric, thanks very much. You’re right, I wasn’t even thinking about translations and the original texts. It sure does make it even more confusing.
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It seems that much of the Old Testament histories is a story of the Israelites creating idols and worshiping other gods and Yahweh getting angry. After all, what was the first thing that they did after Yahweh freed them from Egypt and led them safely to Mt. Sinai? They worshiped a golden calf.
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Neece Reply:
December 31st, 2008 at 6:30 am
You’re right, James. They weren’t very faithful followers. Maybe because Yahweh was such an unbearable god to deal with, constantly not following through on promises and killing even the most devoted followers? Or maybe because yahweh is just another failed attempt at anthropomorphizing inanimate objects to try to understand a confusing, chaotic barbaric world? Yeah, I think it’s the second one.
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And don’t forget, there are actually two sets of “ten commandments” in Exodus. The first set, in Exodus 20, Mo broke in anger when he came down from meeting with god, only to see his people cavorting with a golden calf. The second set, in Exodus 34, were supposed to be like the first, but aren’t. And then if you are talking translations, well hells bells, the Protestant, Catholic and Jewish versions conflict.
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Neece Reply:
January 1st, 2009 at 2:47 am
Yes, you’re right, Steve.
lol!
But if you watched the educational movie, History of the World Part 1, you would have mentioned that there were 15 commandments on 3 tabs at one point, but Moses was clumsy.
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Man, this one confuses me too
And this is without even getting into the whole “three Gods in one” (Father, Son & Holy Spirit).
Personally? In my opinion, all of those other gods? They’re there. Just, not my cup of tea, you know? I stick by the two different commandments that pop up in the Bible of “You shall worship no god other than me”.
Anyone ever read Small Gods by Terry Pratchett? Well, i suppose it could work brilliantly just as it happens there
Or, then again, i could just admit i know nothing of the sort and continue living blindly following a jealous God, his loving Son and some random Spirit that popped up in between somewhere :/ Confusing
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Interesting idea, Joe. I guess if it gives you comfort and makes you happy and you don’t mind all the contradictions…
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I don’t think that discounting the ceremonial laws from Leviticus is arbitrary; that’s down to the difference between old covenant and new.
How to reconcile the OT’s apparent henotheism with today’s monotheism is tricky though. This looks to me like pretty good evidence the Bible was written by men in a specific cultural context rather than dictated word-for-word by a god who transcends time and place.
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Neece Reply:
January 20th, 2009 at 3:23 am
Well, you can’t disregard the old testament because Jesus was a proponent of it. He said you should follow the old laws. According to his words, he was a good jew.
Yup, it’s just a collection of stories written by men.
Thanks for commenting, Errancy.
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The Bible is errant, and it provides a way to compensate for that fact.
The Bible twice declares that it is errant. The first declaration is Matthew 13:33 which reads, “Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.” The second declaration is Luke 13:21 which reads, “It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.”
The Bible thrice mentions a way to compensate for the errancy. The first mention was at Deuteronomy 19:15 which reads, “One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.” The second was at Matthew 18:16 which reads, “But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.” The third mention was at 2 Corinthians 13:1 which reads, “This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.” Their commonality, which is the way to remove the leaven, reads, “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
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Neece Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Well thanks for that. I think you seem to really be reaching for straws here. I don’t agree that your two parables about leaven and your three mentions of 2 or 3 witnesses can be extrapolated so easily. It seems that’s quite a stretch to make it say what you want it to say.
It’s simply a poorly written jumble of stories and letters cobbled together into one book, full of hate, murder and extremely tedious laws. Your carefully chosen quotes do not help in any way for a typical person to get much good or clear ideas about much of anything.
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James Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
None of that made any sense whatsoever. I suppose that it was intended not for typical people but for the insanely stupid.
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Neece Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
James, don’t ignore how he used the word thrice and quoted the “good book”. Of course it’s way beyond simpletons such as ourselves.
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It’s true that my comments do not help a typical person in any way. The reason for that situation is that my comments are not intended for typical people.
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GMNightmare Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Your comments don’t help anybody, and are not intended for anybody because they are complete nonsense and utter trash. In fact, I barely see how they are related to anything.
Your saying the Bible is “straying from the right course” or wrong? I agree, but your quotes don’t say this. And your quotes don’t solve this either.
Saying 3 can condemn a man, but not 1, no matter the truth of either situation… doesn’t solve errancy. A majority does not mean truth. Never has, never will.
There are tons of other quotes that would argue otherwise anyways. I don’t see how you bloody think your even writing about this article, really, it just seems like you wrote a post for something else and accidentally submitted it to this one.
You are in drastic need of clarification, actual clarification, not a silly BS remark.
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George Elliott Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
If it seems silly to you, then leave it alone because it is obviously not intended for you. If is seems to be BS to you, ditto. It it seems to be for the insanely stupid, ditto. If the shoe doesn’t fit you why complain about it? Just leave it alone, OK?
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James Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
That would seem to be better advice to you – at least until you can put together a coherent argument. The verses you cited don’t seem to have anything to do with the problems raised by errancy.
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GMNightmare Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Here’s the problem, it’s not a shoe. It’s a brick. It doesn’t fit anybody, because quite frankly, it’s not a shoe.
Get it? Clarify. You made a BS comment, and you think saying it’s not for everyone works? NO.
If you couldn’t actual make a comment that was relevant to the discussion, why the hell did you post it? If you can’t make a “shoe” that will fit for the discussion, don’t make one. Just leave, get it?
I will tear apart your BS comment. It’s what I do. And don’t sit here and think that you get some invincibility just because you think only certain people will understand it and I’m not one of them. I’m telling you, NOBODY is one of them. You did not make a clear comment.
And nobody is buying your BS… I mean shoe.
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George Elliott Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
If you think that is what you should do, fine. I’m not complaining about you, singular or plural, except for one person who seems to me to be feigning incomprehension. The rest of you seem to me to be genuinely baffled; but one of you seems to me to understand all too well, and is just pretending to not understand, like some sort of a reverse troll. Doesn’t go from forum to forum; just sits and waits for a victum to come along. That person has another think coming. I’m not here to have my wings and feet pulled off. Forget that.
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James Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Yawn. Still waiting for something substantive.
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GMNightmare Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Let’s tally it up here…
Neece thinks your post is completely irrelevant.
James thinks your post is complete and udder nonsense.
I’m saying both, and I even told you why at that.
Who’s feigning incomprehension? Your post is completely irrelevant to the topic. Your passages do not actually back up what you were saying. We are telling you this, but still, you stand there clueless, completely ignoring us.
But you know what, I went more into it… You website (tied with your current posts, your original post doesn’t have it in your name–that’s not a place to put your source, by the way) has 135 passages into which you think the bible is correct on since it’s present more than once. So basically, what you are saying, is that you are ignoring everything Neece says, because it’s not among your essential passages.
Which is of course, BS. I already told you, majority does not make things true. Another problem is, that you can’t even get what those 135 passages mean straight, as evident as your post. A flaw of your whole reasoning first, is that your passages aren’t actually multiple witnesses. None of the writers actually witnessed them, furthermore, they could have just copied ideas from one another. Along this thought, they don’t even actually say the same thing, and you completely butcher them to cram them together, even from completely inane spots.
But of course, this is all guessing, BECAUSE YOU WON’T BLOODY COME OUT AND SAY WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY. Are you retarded? Would you like to give us more? Just STFU if you won’t give some bloody clarification on what the hell you’re even saying.
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Neece Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
I agree. That shoe is quite the brick. My BS meter went off the scales. Now I need to take it to get it recalibrated!
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As you wish. No sooner said than done. Aloha.
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GMNightmare Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
Looking back at your posts, it seems you did not add it in for those ones.
Which makes it extremely amazing, how I found your bloody site. I must of had another window open where you posted somewhere else and did it.
You’ll find everything I said, still holds.
And for clarification, you still haven’t clarified anything.
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Neece Reply:
June 29th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Yeah, well, don’t get too concerned about the links, they get removed for trolls.
But for clarification I like clarified butter.
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No, GMNightmare, I won’t clarify anything for anybody on this forum until and unless somebody tells me which riddle is to be solved first, and why. Then I will clarify to that person and that person only. You somehow got ahold of the link to the site, so you can work you way through it, if you really want to. I did.
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Neece Reply:
June 30th, 2009 at 1:17 am
Try working your way through some critical thinking classes. That might help you.
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I just noticed that the guy left the same BS comments word for word on Conversational Atheist: http://conversationalatheist.com/comments/comments-for-bible-messiah-replaces-animal-sacrifice/
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Neece Reply:
June 30th, 2009 at 1:14 am
Thanks for telling us he’s the troll that I suspected him to be, James.
“And I will hug him and kiss him and rub his fur backwards. And I will call him george.” LOL
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You ever see “A Beautiful Mind” George? Yes? You’re him. Well, your a bastardized version that I’d like to call “An Ugly Mind”.
You’re not talking about riddles. It’s not a riddle. It’s a BS code. There is nothing there, making delusions is not some grand thing. Here, I solved your “riddle”.
“In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”
From the behind of only one witness, George, shall nothing relevant be uttered.
You see how completely used your own game against you George? It works to your rules. Yes, that’s right, because what your doing is twisting words. You’re playing a game of translation George. And everybody with a brain knows that you lose meaning through translation. Well, except you.
Get it?
The Bible has been translated, original meaning has slightly been distorted.
Your further twisting the words, by playing your stupid little game that doesn’t actually work.
It’s simply BS through and through. There are many answers to the game, and you pick the one you want.
Let’s give you a “riddle”:
There is a king of all nutcases here.
Everybody here is sane but George.
Can you solve my “riddle” George? Let’s review, you don’t actually know what a riddle is. Next, your made up “riddle” game does not work… because you made it up.
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Neece Reply:
June 30th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Wow, you’re like a biblical scholar now, GMN. I bow down before your great mad word skillz.
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