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	<title>Comments on: Separation of church and State Benefits Everyone</title>
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	<link>http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/2009/05/15/separation-of-church-and-state-benefits-everyone/</link>
	<description>Skeptical Freethought Atheist Musings to Dispel Ignorance and Enlighten the Mind</description>
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		<title>By: GMNightmare</title>
		<link>http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/2009/05/15/separation-of-church-and-state-benefits-everyone/comment-page-1/#comment-2634</link>
		<dc:creator>GMNightmare</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/?p=1392#comment-2634</guid>
		<description>They ARE mutually exclusive.

Why?  Sovereign power does NOT reside in the people as a whole under a republic.  Nor are rights actually equal under democracy.

First and foremost, individual rights ARE NOT subject to public vote.  Of course, due to a high pull of religious BS, Proposition 8 in California undermined the whole basis of our government system.  The majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority.  Have no doubt, the religious WANT a democracy, so that they can remove all the rights of the minorities.  They want their rule, and their rule alone.

Individual rights are no subject to public vote.
The people do not elect all officials.  
The people do not have practically any direct influence over the system.  
The people are not treated equal in all cases.
The people don&#039;t really get true representatives.
The people, are not in control.  
Not everybody can become a representative.
Elected officials have a mind of their own.
Elected officials must take into consideration of the minority.
We have a military that controls itself, we have little control over it.
We have a constitution.
We are not a democracy.

&quot;in terms of what is set down in its Constitution and subsequent amendments, it is, most certainly, a democracy.&quot;
... this is perhaps the most ignorant of everything you said.  Did you not read what I said?  It is, quite certainly and clearly by the Constitution and amendments, a REPUBLIC.  Just to reiterate from earlier, IT DOES NOT SAY DEMOCRACY.


By the way, simply one sentence definitions won&#039;t help you here.  This is a text book discussion, government forms are too complex to be defined by a little sentence.  They are good for a simply definition that can easily be referred to... and that&#039;s about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They ARE mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>Why?  Sovereign power does NOT reside in the people as a whole under a republic.  Nor are rights actually equal under democracy.</p>
<p>First and foremost, individual rights ARE NOT subject to public vote.  Of course, due to a high pull of religious BS, Proposition 8 in California undermined the whole basis of our government system.  The majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority.  Have no doubt, the religious WANT a democracy, so that they can remove all the rights of the minorities.  They want their rule, and their rule alone.</p>
<p>Individual rights are no subject to public vote.<br />
The people do not elect all officials.<br />
The people do not have practically any direct influence over the system.<br />
The people are not treated equal in all cases.<br />
The people don&#8217;t really get true representatives.<br />
The people, are not in control.<br />
Not everybody can become a representative.<br />
Elected officials have a mind of their own.<br />
Elected officials must take into consideration of the minority.<br />
We have a military that controls itself, we have little control over it.<br />
We have a constitution.<br />
We are not a democracy.</p>
<p>&#8220;in terms of what is set down in its Constitution and subsequent amendments, it is, most certainly, a democracy.&#8221;<br />
&#8230; this is perhaps the most ignorant of everything you said.  Did you not read what I said?  It is, quite certainly and clearly by the Constitution and amendments, a REPUBLIC.  Just to reiterate from earlier, IT DOES NOT SAY DEMOCRACY.</p>
<p>By the way, simply one sentence definitions won&#8217;t help you here.  This is a text book discussion, government forms are too complex to be defined by a little sentence.  They are good for a simply definition that can easily be referred to&#8230; and that&#8217;s about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny</title>
		<link>http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/2009/05/15/separation-of-church-and-state-benefits-everyone/comment-page-1/#comment-2633</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:14:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/?p=1392#comment-2633</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFXuGIpsdE0&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Republic vs Democracy&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFXuGIpsdE0" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Republic vs Democracy</a></p>
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		<title>By: hannah</title>
		<link>http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/2009/05/15/separation-of-church-and-state-benefits-everyone/comment-page-1/#comment-2625</link>
		<dc:creator>hannah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/?p=1392#comment-2625</guid>
		<description>A republic and a democracy are not mutually exclusive (hence the common term &#039;democratic republic&#039;). 

Democracy:
1. Government by the people; that form of government in which the sovereign power resides in the people as a whole, and is exercised either directly by them (as in the small republics of antiquity) or by officers elected by them. In mod. use often more vaguely denoting a social state in which all have equal rights, without hereditary or arbitrary differences of rank or privilege

Republic:
2. a. A state in which the supreme power rests in the people and their elected representatives or officers, as opposed to one governed by a king or similar ruler; a commonwealth. Now also applied loosely to any state which claims this designation.

Therefore, according to these definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary, the U.S.A. is both a republic, that is a state not ruled by a monarch, and a democracy, that is a state ruled by the people, in this case through their elected representatives.

The word &quot;democracy&quot; taken to its very basest meaning could have the connotation of a state where everything would be decided by the people, through referendums etc., but that is not at all what the word &quot;democracy&quot; generally means in modern political systems as such a system would, as you point out, mean mob rule. One can debate about the veracity of the idea that the U.S. is a &quot;social state in which all have equal rights, without hereditary or arbitrary differences of rank or privilege&quot;, but in terms of what is set down in its Constitution and subsequent amendments, it is, most certainly, a democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A republic and a democracy are not mutually exclusive (hence the common term &#8216;democratic republic&#8217;). </p>
<p>Democracy:<br />
1. Government by the people; that form of government in which the sovereign power resides in the people as a whole, and is exercised either directly by them (as in the small republics of antiquity) or by officers elected by them. In mod. use often more vaguely denoting a social state in which all have equal rights, without hereditary or arbitrary differences of rank or privilege</p>
<p>Republic:<br />
2. a. A state in which the supreme power rests in the people and their elected representatives or officers, as opposed to one governed by a king or similar ruler; a commonwealth. Now also applied loosely to any state which claims this designation.</p>
<p>Therefore, according to these definitions from the Oxford English Dictionary, the U.S.A. is both a republic, that is a state not ruled by a monarch, and a democracy, that is a state ruled by the people, in this case through their elected representatives.</p>
<p>The word &#8220;democracy&#8221; taken to its very basest meaning could have the connotation of a state where everything would be decided by the people, through referendums etc., but that is not at all what the word &#8220;democracy&#8221; generally means in modern political systems as such a system would, as you point out, mean mob rule. One can debate about the veracity of the idea that the U.S. is a &#8220;social state in which all have equal rights, without hereditary or arbitrary differences of rank or privilege&#8221;, but in terms of what is set down in its Constitution and subsequent amendments, it is, most certainly, a democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Spanish Inquisitor</title>
		<link>http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/2009/05/15/separation-of-church-and-state-benefits-everyone/comment-page-1/#comment-2442</link>
		<dc:creator>Spanish Inquisitor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/?p=1392#comment-2442</guid>
		<description>Oh, those &lt;b&gt;tolerant&lt;/b&gt; Christians!

Tolerant

adj.

   1. Inclined to tolerate the beliefs, practices, or traits of others; forbearing. See synonyms at &lt;i&gt;broad-minded&lt;/i&gt;.
   2. Able to withstand or endure an adverse environmental condition: plants tolerant of extreme heat.
   3. Unable to force one&#039;s religious viewpoint on those with opposing viewpoints: &lt;i&gt;As a result of their religious beliefs, Christians are remarkably tolerant of atheists.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, those <b>tolerant</b> Christians!</p>
<p>Tolerant</p>
<p>adj.</p>
<p>   1. Inclined to tolerate the beliefs, practices, or traits of others; forbearing. See synonyms at <i>broad-minded</i>.<br />
   2. Able to withstand or endure an adverse environmental condition: plants tolerant of extreme heat.<br />
   3. Unable to force one&#8217;s religious viewpoint on those with opposing viewpoints: <i>As a result of their religious beliefs, Christians are remarkably tolerant of atheists.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Neece</title>
		<link>http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/2009/05/15/separation-of-church-and-state-benefits-everyone/comment-page-1/#comment-2404</link>
		<dc:creator>Neece</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/?p=1392#comment-2404</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Steve. :) Good points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Steve. <img src='http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Good points.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/2009/05/15/separation-of-church-and-state-benefits-everyone/comment-page-1/#comment-2386</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 05:50:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/?p=1392#comment-2386</guid>
		<description>The First Amendment was carefully worded so as not to require the disestablishment of the few State churches that existed in 1789, hence that odd construction &quot;...respecting an establishment of religion...&quot;  But _before_ the First Amendment, Article 6 says &quot;...no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.&quot;

Go to a college bookstore and you will find, among the quick-reference charts, the Constitution of the United States, in a laminated chart.  It&#039;s smaller than the physics quick reference.  Most members of Congress would do well to study how their ancestors managed to say so much with so few words.  It might serve to mitigate the tendency to churn out staff-assembled bills that nobody has time to read, not even their &quot;authors.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The First Amendment was carefully worded so as not to require the disestablishment of the few State churches that existed in 1789, hence that odd construction &#8220;&#8230;respecting an establishment of religion&#8230;&#8221;  But _before_ the First Amendment, Article 6 says &#8220;&#8230;no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.&#8221;</p>
<p>Go to a college bookstore and you will find, among the quick-reference charts, the Constitution of the United States, in a laminated chart.  It&#8217;s smaller than the physics quick reference.  Most members of Congress would do well to study how their ancestors managed to say so much with so few words.  It might serve to mitigate the tendency to churn out staff-assembled bills that nobody has time to read, not even their &#8220;authors.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Neece</title>
		<link>http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/2009/05/15/separation-of-church-and-state-benefits-everyone/comment-page-1/#comment-1923</link>
		<dc:creator>Neece</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 06:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/?p=1392#comment-1923</guid>
		<description>Sigh, I&#039;m not surprised. I think when you clash blind faith with logic and reason, it gets ugly and those who only have their religion to back up get very angry. I see what you mean, though. That person came to you and basically picked the fight. Maybe she expected you to just roll over on your belly and give yourself to jesus right then and there. Certainly that would have involved just as much faith and common sense for her to suppose, I guess.

It&#039;s just sad that people can&#039;t come together and celebrate what we have in common instead of getting so angry over what is different. Then again science vs. faith is so completely opposite, I guess if you have one, the other is just &quot;evil&quot; or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigh, I&#8217;m not surprised. I think when you clash blind faith with logic and reason, it gets ugly and those who only have their religion to back up get very angry. I see what you mean, though. That person came to you and basically picked the fight. Maybe she expected you to just roll over on your belly and give yourself to jesus right then and there. Certainly that would have involved just as much faith and common sense for her to suppose, I guess.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s just sad that people can&#8217;t come together and celebrate what we have in common instead of getting so angry over what is different. Then again science vs. faith is so completely opposite, I guess if you have one, the other is just &#8220;evil&#8221; or something.</p>
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