My sister-in-law (we’ll call her Martha) has been dating this guy who we’ll call Steve. I met him the night that she and Steve were reacquainted at the high school reunion last year. It was one of those big affairs where 10 years of classes were invited. Anyway she and Steve have basically been dating ever since. She hasn’t had the best luck with guys in the past but she’s head over heels in love with him and is very happy, which is good.

The night I met Steve, I mentioned to him that I was reading a great book called Microcosm: E. Coli and the New Science of Life. It’s a fantastic book that I highly recommend. Butch was there and chimed in that it’s all about evolution, which it is, in a very cool, observable way. Steve rolled his eyes and scoffed. Scoffed! I didn’t want to get into it since we were heading home but I immediately found myself feeling cold toward him.

So, when Martha brought Steve to a family BBQ the next day I was polite but really didn’t have anything to say to him. He seemed nice enough though.

Time went on and I learned from him that he likes Sarah Palin. He thinks she’s got some good ideas. (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth there) Martha told me he’s a full on conservative republican but that they don’t talk about politics. As I do with most people, I was also refraining from political  – or religious – talk with him as well.

To this day we’ve stayed clear of those two topics. But we’ve gone out to dinner quite a few times, hung out at family gatherings, and he even invited us over to watch some MMA on a channel we don’t get next month (Woot!) He’s a genuinely nice guy. He’s not stupid by any means, can hold a conversation, has a good sense of humor, and seems to be making Martha extremely happy.

Why am I talking about this? Well, to me, Sarah Palin is a stupid, vapid pentecostal nutcase with only enough brain cells to rub together to help her wink and flap her mouth when someone pulls her puppet strings. The fact that people give her 2 seconds of their time, combined with her views on Armageddon and the end times, makes her extremely dangerous. Usually when confronted with someone who likes Palin, I run the other way.

But this time, because I wanted Martha to be happy, I got to know Steve and found that I genuinely like him. I don’t want to talk about politics or religion with him, but I like the guy.

It leads me to wonder, are the vast majority of republicans and christians more like Steve? Are they relatively nice people who are not stupid, or even smart? Good, honest people who are just misguided in politics because of how they were raised or values they got from church?

Have the vocal minority that I see on tv or the interwebs overshadowed the quiet majority that encompasses Steve? Do the vocal minority give people like him a bad name? Or is that bad reputation well earned even for Steve?

And does it matter? I mean, if people like Steve would happily vote for Palin because of her “good ideas and folksy charm” doesn’t that make him a serious part of the problem, even if he’s a relatively nice guy?

Here’s another question. Are Steve and I going about this the right way? By eschewing political and religious debates and arguments, are we missing an opportunity? I don’t think so.

Sometimes the best way is to lead by example. We each know where the other is coming from, and he’s shown me that there are nice republican christians out there, something I wasn’t too sure of before. Maybe he has learned that atheists aren’t so bad by hanging out with Butch and I. Maybe that’s better than a bunch of heated arguments pitting reason against dogma, or republican conservatism against whatever the hell I am. Those arguments would never change the other’s mind, but would certainly strain or break the friendship we’ve developed.

Your thoughts?

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Woo can be defined as anything supernatural, irrational or lacking in evidence. So it would include religion and any kind of pseudoscience.

On a side note, is there anything that could be defined as woo that you still believe in? If so, why?

For me, I’ve somehow whittled down my friend list from all woo-lovers to all skeptical atheists. I didn’t do this deliberately, but I guess with my skeptical talk and constant questioning (not aggressively, but I really did question all the woo I previously embraced), my woo-loving friends all went their separate ways and avoided me within months of when my quest for knowledge began.

I didn’t have many friends for awhile but then found the Morgantown Atheists where I found several people that have become good friends. Also, having HDC has let me meet new people who were rather like-minded as well.

With extended family, I still have to deal with woo, both religious and supernatural. They know Butch (my awesome husband) and I are die-hard atheists so we have come to an unspoken agreement that we don’t talk about religion. Or politics just to be safe and have nice dinners together.

I think I’m lucky in most respects. My skeptical atheist friends keep things lively by being smart and reason-based (most of the time, we’re not perfect, of course). And my extended family gives me an occasional glimpse into woo-land so I get to see what the majority of people are dealing with and believing. It’s enough.

I don’t avoid anyone based on their woo. But I tend to gently state my skepticism when I can so that I am not being dishonest about myself. Then people who are wrapped in woo tend to avoid me, not the other way around. I can’t emphasize enough that I am very nice about it, not aggressive or “militant” at all. I’m probably way too nice about it. The other evening, I let my sister-in-law go on about her visit to a psychic and only said two things about how cold readings work. When the other sister-in-law said the psychic (a 95 year old woman) insisted she give her her hand (she didn’t want a reading) and told her to never drive, to dump her boyfriend (who she just moved in with and is very happy with) and other negative things, I said a few things then. Mainly that it’s all made up and it’s nonsense and don’t let that upset her. But even though she said it was no big deal, she talked about it all night. I got the impression it really bothered her.

As you may know, I’m happily married to Butch (we’ve been together for 15 years). So I’m not looking to date anyone, of course. But if I did have to date, I think I would be pretty strict about how much woo my partner could be into and still be in a relationship with me. I think it would be such a clash of belief and skepticism that it would cause problems. I think I’d have issues with it.

Let us know what you think in the comments!

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Here’s the experiment as explained in the book:

You have a serious conversation with a deeply christian friend. Your friend is intelligent, well educated and knowledgeable. You agree to record the session. The topic is islam. During the session, you discuss that mohammed was a self-appointed prophet and that he claimed he talked to allah and the angels. He wrote a book that he claimed was infallible, and he flew from Jerusalem to heaven on a horse.

During the conversation, you agree that mohammed was probably delusional to think he could talk to god. You agree that the koran was clearly written by mohammed and not allah. It is ludicrous for him to claim that he is the last prophet and that all others are false. Neither you nor your friend can believe that he flew to heaven, let alone on a horse. It all sounds too crazy, and you both agree it is difficult to see how someone could believe such a religion. At the end of the conversation, you say that muslims did not choose their religion; they were born into it. Anyone who was exposed to both christianity and islam would see that christianity is the true religion.

Over the next few days, you transcribe the recording onto paper. Then you change all references to mohammed and make them jesus. Now the document reads something like this:

During the conversation, you both agree that jesus was probably delusional to think he could talk to jehovah. The bible was clearly written by men and not jehovah. You both agree it is ludicrous for jesus to claim that he is the last prophet and that all later ones are false. Neither of you can believe that he rose from the dead, nor flew to heaven. It all sounds too crazy, and it is difficult to see how someone could believe such a religion. At the end of the conversation, you both agree that christians did not choose their religion; they were born into it. Anyone who was exposed to both christianity and islam would see that islam is the true religion.

Now, tell your friend, “I made a transcript of our conversation about islam and would like to go over it with you.” As you read it, watch her reaction. How does she respond to each statement? How soon does she get defensive? How quickly does she start making elaborate arguments that have no more factual basis than the first conversation? If you persist in this line of parallel reasoning, how long before she gets angry or breaks off the conversation? Could this conversation damage your friendship?

You can do this experiment with other prophetic religions. For example, substitute Joseph Smith for mormonism or moses for judaism.

Have you ever tried an experiment like this? Have you ever questioned your friend’s religion? Did it damage your friendship? Or a family member? Does that person still talk to you? How far did your religious friend go to make excuses and explain away his religion in the face of reality?

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Ruth said the following:

My sister and I are 5 years apart, she is in her late 30s I am in my early 30s. We live on opposite sides of the country.

[Esther and I] talked on Christmas – but only if I agreed to be play nice. We did exchange gifts. As long as I am willing to play along, she will speak to me – but it is obviously strained and only to make my mom happy. I have always had issues with hypocrisy or injustice – and I hate the fact that she doesn’t have the respect for me and my feelings that she expects for herself – but I try.

Is there anything within the teachings that I can use to help her see my even a tiny bit of the pain that we feel when she says Dad, Grandma or I got what we asked for?  I don’t want to destroy her belief – she has a right to it and I can respect that – as hard as it is for me to refrain from argument.

I am not the kind to sit and let people wallow in ignorance. I take serious exception when someone comes to a conclusion based on erroneous fact or assumption – that is my job. It is my job to present evidence and arguments and win. I can’t do that here – and that alone throws me so off balance I am unsure how to proceed.

I have been thinking about this for 2 days. I’m afraid I can’t really give Ruth what she’s after. I don’t have a copy of The Secret but I am quite familiar with the law of attraction as I spelled out awhile ago in a post called The Law of Attraction, and the Secret, are Bullshit. For your convenience, here are the basic rules for the law of attraction again:

Thoughts have an energy that attracts like energy (sometimes borrowed from Quantum Mechanics, minus any evidence). You must control this energy by practicing four things:

1. Know what you want.
2. Ask the universe for it.
3. Feel and behave as if the object of your desire is already with you, or is on its way to you.
4. Be open to receiving it.

Of course, if you think negative thoughts, the universe will manifest those negative thoughts in your life as well. So you must think positively at all times so that the universe will manifest all of your desires.

You might notice a few things when you read over the basic concept. Namely, the narcissistic and egocentric worldview, devoid of thinking about the needs and desires of our fellow man. The whole universe magically follows your every thought, tallies them up and does your bidding if you concentrate those thoughts. So the sun doesn’t revolve around the earth, the universe revolves around YOU. It’s sort of like having your own personal genie or god.

Where in all of this can you find compassion for our fellow man? Nowhere, especially if those less knowledgeable about the petty workings of this busybody universe are normal humans who worry and have negative thoughts. Whatever misfortune befalls those poor saps had it coming to them. That is an extremely harmful worldview, not to mention devoid of reality, common sense and compassion.

So Ruth is feeling the full sting of The Secret. Her sister has deemed her toxic because she has had physical problems since she was in her early teens. According to Esther, Ruth has attracted her ailments to her, that she asked to be sick.

This is the farthest concept from empathy I can think of when it comes to someone who is suffering. Instead of showing compassion for her sister, she avoids her, presumably to avoid the magical negative vibes. That’s pretty heartless and uncaring.

So how can Ruth get through to someone who is so cold and self-centered? Esther demands that Ruth play nice, but does she do the same? Esther can make the universe bend to her will, yet she can’t show compassion to her own sister who has health problems, that Ruth’s real-life situation makes her toxic? It has nothing to do with anything based in reality. A book tells her to avoid the negative so she disposes of her sister.

There’s just no way to reason with, or appeal to the emotions of, someone who is willing to do that for her own gain through the manipulation of the universe through her thoughts. It’s self-serving. It’s a belief that is extremely appealing, and easy to confirm whenever the slightest positive thing happens. And if something negative happens, it’s easy to make excuses and use that as a confirmation as well. Cherry-picking extraordinaire!

You can’t make people see the world the way you do. We are all in our own head in that sense. While Ruth can try to gently win her sister over and show through example that life is full of happy and sad, negative and positive, ups and downs, and it’s what you make of it all, well, maybe someday she might change her mind. But Esther seems to have embraced this magical thinking at any cost.

And when you have a false belief based on nothing but a silly book (ahem, religion, anyone?), people who don’t believe the same way are actually a threat to you. They threaten your constructed worldview with facts, reality and conflicting evidence. You are in danger of your belief system falling like a house of cards. It seems like it’s in your best interest to avoid or attack those “others”, even if they are family.

Well, actually it’s in your best interest to seek out differing philosophical perspectives, ask a lot of questions, read and study real science and the actual workings of the universe. The real world is so achingly beautiful. It’s so fascinating and complex. We understand but a small drop in the bucket of nature. There is so much out there that is real and true and interesting and exciting. Why do people feel the need to search for a supernatural answer? That is so lazy. Nature itself will blow your mind if you observe it. There is so much to learn. And it’s all natural. No accountant genies or gods needed.

I have to say a few more things. In talking this over with my friend and my husband, we all agreed that if our sister treated us like Esther, we would probably take a cue from her and think it was a good idea to avoid her for awhile. Why try to have a relationship with someone who doesn’t want one in return? I know, that’s not how we are raised in society. But in my life, my friends and husband are much more important to me than my blood relatives who are all crazy, dysfunctional and dare I say it, toxic. I make my own family with great friends and my husband. True empathy, affection, love and respect are more important to me than similar genes and a childhood history together. But that’s not for everyone.

I also have to say that my opinions are probably a bit more pragmatic and less optimistic than other people might have. If you have differing opinions for Ruth on her situation, please feel free to comment. Or if you want, you can email me privately and I’ll forward it on to Ruth. Also feel free to share any experiences you’ve had with law of attraction. It might be helpful.

Other posts about The Secret:

• The Law Of Attraction – And The Secret – Are Bullshit
• The Secret Divides
• The Secret is Still Bullshit (with video!)

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For example, let’s say you believe that your thoughts dictate what will come to you. Then someone steals your wallet while you’re at the grocery store. According to The Secret, you brought that negative event to you by worrying and thinking negative thoughts. Because you were afraid of having your wallet stolen, you worried about it in the back of your mind, and that made that guy behind you decide to run up and steal it. Wow! You are so powerful! The universe listens to your thoughts and acts upon them, even when you aren’t paying attention!

In this fantasy world, the universe is a busy-body accountant, tallying your thoughts and then scheduling events to correspond. Ridiculous!

So wow, what would happen if you really focused your attention? What would happen if you got rid of all of your negative thoughts (not humanly possible or healthy)  and wished for only good things? Perfect health? Wealth? A perfect spouse? Sure, why not! If you can dream it, you can make it happen. (cough cough BULLSHIT!!)

Of course, here’s the catch. It doesn’t happen overnight. In fact, it might be years and years of wishful thinking before something comes true. (Coincidence?!) Oh, and most likely you actually DID things to make it finally happen. Maybe you made decisions and took actions that led to you finally acheiving your dream.

But that’s not magic. The universe doesn’t work the way The Secret says it does. If it did, my life would be very different because of the power of my thoughts.

What do I think about a lot? Well, actually even though I’m a rather happy atheist (with a heart of gold), I tend to worry. I often worry about Butch (my awesome husband) when he drives to and from work. I’m worried he’ll get in an accident. Since we moved to West Virginia the threat of a deer running in front of him has increased drastically than when we lived in Florida. Plus now we have snow and ice instead of just rain and other bad drivers texting and talking on their cell phones.  But you know what? My thoughts DO NOT LEAVE MY HEAD unless I speak them, write them down or act upon them.

In 5 years of worrying, Butch has never been in an accident. Could he get in one tomorrow? Yes. But that would be a coincidence, not magic. See? It’s nonsense.

One of the most insidious and hateful parts of the Secret is the idea that people who are in a bad situation made it happen with their negative thoughts. So if a woman gets raped on her way home from work one day, she is at fault because she had negative thoughts and worries that attracted the negative energy and therefore the attack on her.

That kind of thinking is hateful and evil. Unfortunately, I can tell you, once you believe such a baseless lie, it can really get stuck in your head. I still have to remind myself when I worry about something or think a negative thought that the thought doesn’t leave my head and the universe is not keeping track of them.  (By the way, if you know of a way to stop worrying, let me know)

This all leads me to Ruth (not her real name. If you have a list of cool names that I can use for when people send me emails that they then let me post anonymously, let me know! Maybe I should use biblical names. How funny would that be? I went back and changed her name to Ruth… )

Anyway, Ruth sent me an email asking for my advice and assistance. She wrote the following:

I was reading through your discussion of ‘the secret’ and need some help. I see you said you have experience with the lie of attraction, and now reject it. My sister is lost to me because I am a toxic influence in her life. I am crushed, and she is ambivalent. I would rather she hate me, at least then I would exist. How can I make her see how much this hurts? That I miss and love her, that her beliefs insult and degrade me? That it is painful when I read that she thinks my chronic debilitating illness is my own fault and I was asking for it through negative thoughts? Is there anything I can do? Do you know of any other resources I can turn to? Any help is truly appreciated!

I asked Ruth if I could post this question to you, my wonderful readers, because maybe you would have some great advice or thoughts to help too. I haven’t answered her yet because I have to say, my first thoughts were kind of negative about her situation. So what I did was send a follow-up list of questions to her to get more information. I’ll let you know when she answers.

Unfortunately when someone wants to believe, and fully accepts the bullshit of the law of attraction or other psuedo-science, they can be just as dogmatic as a True Believer of religion. They want to believe. They feel the need to believe. And anything that gets in the way of those beliefs must be discarded.

It goes something like this. Ruth’s sister is looking for an easy fix. She buys The Secret, reads it and believes it. After that, she will cherry-pick her experiences and memories to support the law of attraction working in her life, and conveniently ignore all the evidence that says the universe follows natural laws and is otherwise random. Then it becomes a dogmatic belief. If Ruth disagrees, and is ill, then of course her sister will assume she’s toxic and bringing in bad vibes. The book has told her that Ruth made herself ill. Ruth has to be avoided. The Secret, in this situation, divides families.

Unfortunately when someone is dogmatic, in my experience there’s no getting through to them, at least not in the short term. My initial advice to Ruth, before I get more information, is the following:

You can’t make someone behave and think the way you want them to. The best advice I can give at this point is simply to live your life as best you can. Don’t try to talk to her about the law of attraction. It’s rare to get through to someone who believes something completely. You will only drive them away because when you threaten their belief system, the easiest way for them to deal with the conflict is to get rid of you, as opposed to changing their worldview.

Your best bet is to show by example. Take care of yourself, be realistic and try to make the best of your personal situation (your illness), and reach out to her if she lets you. But when you reach out to her, make it benign and non-confrontational.

Of course, the other side of the situation is a bit less pleasant. If your sister is willing to discard you so easily over the lies written in a mindless book, perhaps that’s something to think about. Maybe for right now, she’s the one who’s being toxic? But that’s just a thought. I really don’t have enough information about the situation to know.

That being said, I think you have to move on, take care of yourself, make the best of your situation, and wait it out. Occasionally reach out with a non-confrontational hello. Don’t talk about the law of attraction, your illness, or how you are hurt by her actions. Keep it friendly and avoid inflammatory issues.

Maybe things will change. Maybe they won’t, but at least you’re living your life to the best of your ability and finding happiness where you can. That’s all any of us can do.

So if you would like to share some thoughts with Ruth, feel free to comment. I will let you know when she answers my questions. (edit: see below for a link to part 2)

~

Other posts about The Secret:

• The original post: The Law Of Attraction – And The Secret – Are Bullshit
• Follow-up post to this one: The Secret Divides Part 2
• The Secret is Still Bullshit (with video!)

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That’s right, they tortured and killed their relative and received community service.

Justice France acknowledged some might not see the sentences as adequate but his reasons included:

• They were trying to save, not harm, her.
• Sleep deprivation greatly affected rational judgment.
• High level of co-operation with police afterwards.
• No-one suffered more from the death than the offenders and their family.

So, if you suffer when you’re drowning your sister for two days, make sure you don’t get any sleep, and proclaim that you’re trying to save her. That makes it A-OK. How does that make any logical sense?

From stuff.co.nz:

Ms Moses’ family thought she was under a makutu  (a Maori curse) connected with her sister stealing a concrete lion from the Greytown Hotel.

In the days before her death on October 12, 2007, her extended family gathered around her. The Crown said she was mentally ill but the family took advice from a tohunga.

Apparently misunderstanding his advice, the family tried to cure her themselves when she deteriorated.

Group hysteria took over and they made up a treatment using water, the judge said.

A 14-year-old girl also injured that night recovered and is back living with the two caregivers who were acquitted of allowing her to be ill-treated.

Ms Moses’ paternal grandfather, Charlie Moses, who had tried to get outside help for her, said he accepted the sentences. “All we want to do is get on with our life. As far as I’m concerned the outcome was right.”

His tearful wife, Janet, after whom Ms Moses was named, said her granddaughter was “at peace now”.

Hours later, the extended Rawiri family emerged from the court building. None, including Ms Moses’ mother, would comment but another relative, Te Waina Pou, said the sentences were a relief.

“[The whanau] will get together and begin to live their lives again. There’s a lot of love here … I think all this has strengthened them.”

Greytown Hotel owner Wayne Agent, says the lion statues seized as evidence should be returned. “It’s not that we want them back, but they came from here and they may as well come back. I intend to have them blessed when they return.”

This is completely insane to me. Perhaps a part of their “community service” should be to learn critical thinking skills as well as a healthy dose of skepticism. I don’t have a good answer for what’s appropriate in such a situation. But this doesn’t seem like the right way to handle things. A woman was tortured and died a horrible death because of religion. If it were done out of “love” in any other circumstance, the family would at least be locked up for being criminally insane, wouldn’t they?

Why does their “sacred” religion make it OK to torture and kill? And how often do horror stories like these go on every day around the world, and we don’t hear about them because they seem normal to the locals? It’s barbaric.

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We have all heard about the Neumanns. They were both convicted of 2nd degree reckless homicide in the death of their 11 year old daughter Madeline. She had diabetes but it was undiagnosed. She died a horrible death at home, surrounded by praying sheeple who refused to call an ambulance until she stopped breathing. Doctors testified that Madeline could have been saved if she had received simple medical care like insulin and fluids before she stopped breathing.

The mother said that she and her husband believed their daughter’s deteriorating condition may have been the result of a falling out with another couple, and called them once the girl was unconscious and persuaded them to come pray for the girl.

“I asked her if she loved Jesus,” the mother testified. “She might have said yes. I know for sure she was acknowledging it. What sounds came out, I don’t remember. She was making noises. … My focus definitely was to pray.”

Their lawyer told the jury that Neumann sincerely believed praying would heal his daughter and he did nothing criminally wrong.

“Dale Neumann was doing what he thought would work for his daughter. He was administering faith healing. He thought it was working.”

What god would punish a young girl because her parents had a fight with another couple? Oh, right. The christian god. Of course. Dale Neumann had studied to be a pentecostal minister, but at the time of Madeline’s death the family didn’t belong to any organized religion. The mother said she didn’t have anything against doctors either. Then why is her daughter dead? Oh, right, because it was a spiritual illness. Yeah, the prayer really was helping. I see why they decided to hold off on the tried and true medical care in favor of pleas to an invisible man in the sky. Go with what (doesn’t) work, and keep doing it till your daughter is dead. Smart thinking.This is beyond reprehensible to me. I never wanted children of my own. But I feel that if you have a child, that is the most important responsibility in your life. You are obligated, as a human being, to do your very best to raise that child to become a healthy, happy adult. You created it, you take care of it and make sure it’s in good health. This means you must educate yourself, sometimes compromise your own comforts for that child, and so on.

Nothing is more important if you decide to create a life. If you can’t handle the responsibility, then don’t get pregnant, get an abortion, or put the baby up for adoption. It’s that freaking simple.

Why is the charge so minor for such a horrid crime? This girl could not walk, talk, drink or eat. People sat around and watched her die. In 2008. In America. And the worst they get is up to 25 years?

In Oregon a man was convicted of misdemeanor criminal mistreatment for praying instead of seeking medical treatment for his 15 month old daughter who died of pneumonia and a blood infection in 2008. Both of the girl’s parents were acquitted of manslaughter charges. Why?

How criminal is it to let your own child die a horrible death while you watch and pray? What the hell is wrong with someone to be so detached from reality under such awful circumstances?

Two years ago, at 5:15 am, my husky, Stazi, came to the door after being outside for a few minutes. Her face was swollen horribly and I freaked out. She had eaten a bee! I called the emergency vet and waited for 2 minutes in a panic for the return call. The vet calmly told me to give her benadryl, and told me not to panic. Now, Stazi is my dog, not my baby, but I would have rushed her to the vet in a heartbeat if it had been serious and she needed medical care.

If it’s so simple for me to make a decision about my dog, how divorced from reality and common sense does a person have to be to forgo medical attention for their daughter or son? How devout and brainwashed do you have to be to think that god is testing you?

That’s what the Neumanns thought, that god was testing them and all they needed to do was pray. They never changed their story, even during the trial. Never said they were guilty of anything, and plan to appeal their sentences. That’s appalling. So I guess they failed that test though. Or did god?

Would you let your child die as a test of faith? Would you even let your dog or cat die as a test of faith? And if your dog or child did die, would you feel remorse? If you didn’t, wouldn’t you then be a heartless monster? Would a loving god push you that far, to the point of killing your own child?

No. Definitely not. But there is no god at all. The christian god is made up, as are all the others. Created by superstitious men and women who don’t understand the way the world works so they fill it with flawed gods. Gods that punish children for their parents’ sins. Gods that kill babies. Gods that breed hatred and fear.

I for one am glad to be god-free. Can I hear an amen?

From Here, Here and Here

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