Without criticizing or judging your page in any way, I just would like to ask you, why are you so vocal about your non-beliefs?
Can you see any correlation to the obnoxious holy-rollers that most people dislike?
Perhaps its just a need for self-expression, expressed. I guess it was the “Atheist/Humanist/Skeptical/Freethinker Group” poll that got me. Why do you need help to think freely? Or company? How is it not the antithesis of a prayer group?
I just think perhaps you need balance. I found mine, or the closest I’ve ever come to it, in the martial arts. Self-defense, but a wonderful integration of the physical and the spiritual, however one defines that, and although its frequently tied to a religion, that can be left to the individual.
I ran across the movie “The Secret” and found your website from a Google search entitled “the secret is bullshit”.
Have a good one.
By the way, I am a political conservative and a Christian, although most would argue (if they were interested, which they are not) I am not a practicing one. Just a believer.

These days, when someone tries to subtly insult me, I usually just brush it off and move on. But this email reminded me that maybe I need to speak louder, slower and more clearly.

First, this blog is for atheists and skeptics, not christians and mindless believers. This blog is by a skeptical atheist for people who like to think and use their minds. If you don’t like it, no one is making you read it. Go mind your own business elsewhere. I’m not coming into your backyard and whining. I’ll thank you to give me the same courtesy.

Second, atheists are growing in number and we need community too. Not only do we need it, we deserve it, just like any other group in this country. In fact, it should be a basic human right to meet and socialize with like-minded individuals, especially for peaceful purposes. Unfortunately in some countries the people aren’t free and atheists are in danger if they expose themselves in any way. Now in Ireland it’s illegal to blaspheme. We’re going backwards!

Even small minority groups should be allowed to meet together and have a community. Why is that so threatening to believers? Why does that bother them so much? Well, here’s something interesting. After christianity, nonbelievers are the biggest group in America, bigger than judaism, islam, and all the others. In fact, we’re bigger than all those others combined. I guess that’s why they worry when we gather together. (Religion in the U.S.)

Third, my atheist meetings are not to help me think freely. I do that on my own. Mainly we get together to share ideas, learn new things, expand our minds, and share in our growing community of like-minded skeptical, freethinking nonbelievers. So only christians get to meet on a regular basis to have a community? You think christians have a monopoly on people spending time together? You think we’re uppity and should sit in the back of the bus? Get over yourselves.

Fourth, we are the antithesis of a prayer group, yes. Most definitely. Because we accomplish things. We get together to learn, expand our minds, stretch our horizons, to challenge our ways of thinking at times, to educate ourselves. And you know what? We also get together to help others. Sometimes we have donation drives for the less fortunate. We also have a campaign to help our local Botanic Garden in progress. One of our goals is to help our community. Pretty nifty, huh?

A prayer group is a bunch of people huddling together, praying to an unknown, unseen entity that has never answered a prayer. Ever. Why? Because he doesn’t exist. In hundreds of years of science, there has never been a rigorous scientific study that has found any evidence of god or the supernatural. Everything… EVERYTHING in this universe that we’ve investigated so far has turned out to be completely natural. No god needed. Especially not an angry local god from the Middle East with a penchant for wholesale slaughter and a bad temper. So sitting in a room praying to nothing does nothing. Nothing.

Why not go out and actually help someone in need instead of clasping your hands in prayer? Prayer merely lets the person praying feel superior for doing nothing but clasping their hands together.

How do atheists relate to obnoxious holy rollers? They don’t. Just because you compare two groups doesn’t mean they have anything in common. It’s completely meaningless.

• We have ethics, while they shit on their own high and mighty biblical morals while preaching a hard-line moral code to their flock.
• We get together in the name of reason, science, education and community. We are trying to build up good things. They preach and pray, people of one book, eschewing education, learning and critical thinking. They want people to stay the sheep that they are so they can bilk them for money. It’s greed and power, nothing more.

The list goes on and on. I don’t need to explain the good that our group does, even just by letting other atheists know they aren’t alone in a sea of religious dogma. That’s why we’re so vocal. There are many of us out there. We are now starting to gather together whether you like it or not. If you don’t like it, it’s probably because you feel threatened. I can see how reason, ethics and critical thinking can be scary.

If you’re a godless heathen, please consider joining a local group, an internet group, or forming your own. I wrote about how to start a group recently. While we aren’t going to agree on everything, you will probably be pleasantly surprised how awesome it is to hang out with like-minded heathens and critical thinkers. Who knows, it might do a lot of good for your community, but also for you! Let me know if you do.

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What is the reasoning here? “Let’s celebrate the birth of our savior, but let’s make sure we focus on his crucifixion at the same time? What would easter look like then? Would you have to mix holiday symbols there too?

Update: Here’s the news story that explains the above image.

Of course, the bible mentions the “christmas” tree in the old testament, and they aren’t too keen on it:

Jeremiah 10:2-4: “Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.”

Here is another version which reads a bit differently:

Jeremiah 10: 2 Thus says the LORD, “Do not learn the way of the nations, And do not be terrified by the signs of the heavens Although the nations are terrified by them; 3 For the customs of the peoples are delusion; Because it is wood cut from the forest, The work of the hands of a craftsman with a cutting tool. 4 They decorate it with silver and with gold; They fasten it with nails and with hammers So that it will not totter.

Oh, oops, sorry baby jesus, I guess we shouldn’t be decorating trees to celebrate your birth, especially since we stole the idea from the heathens. But of course, then they say, jesus is the reason for the season. But I say, the Winter Solstice is really the reason for the season, if you’re going to celebrate anything.

This works well too, the Flying Spaghetti Monster as a tree topper:

Happy Holidays my friends!

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Pharyngula wrote about this the other night and noted that the giveaway is now 100,000 books at 100 universities, that Darwin’s text will remain intact, and the 50 page foreword will be rewritten to be more fair to atheists. (Does that mean it will be 50 blank pages?)

Here’s what I would love to see happen:

• Atheists, heathens, skeptics and science lovers go to the universities where these books are being given out, kindly receive the free book and walk away.
• (The next bit is optional) Then meet the other local atheists, walk back to the people giving the books away en masse, and quietly and politely rip out the intro, throw it in the trash and smile.
• (The next bit is also optional) Then get into a friendly debate with the Comfort/Cameron folks, always staying pleasant and friendly, but defeat them with logic, reason and science facts.

This would serve several purposes:

• It would keep the sullied copies of Darwin’s Origin of Species out of the hands of young people who are just learning to think a bit more critically and may not understand that the foreword is complete lies and bullshit
• It would make a statement
• It would show that Atheists CAN unite for a common cause, for one short afternoon, to do a good deed
• If the atheists are polite, friendly and well-spoken, it will show people that we are good, friendly people, not monsters.
• It will really upset Comfort and Cameron, which is great fun.

Here’s what you can do:

• Contact your local atheist/brights/freethinkers/skeptical/science/physics/logic/critical thinker, etc. group and talk to them about getting a group together to meet, receive a book, and perhaps make a statement with it en masse once you all have a copy.
• Help us find out what schools the books will be handed out at so we know where to go. I am not sure how to find this out.
• Go to your university on November 19 and at least get your copy of the book.

I think if possible (and yes, I know I’m publishing this to my blog), we would best be served if we kept this a bit quiet, at least for now. But spread the word, tell all your evolution-loving, blasphemous, hell-bound heathen friends and family about it.

We can disseminate information through here for now, so let us know if you have any ideas, suggestions and updates about the event, as well as if anyone can find out at which schools the books will be given out.

EDIT: Here is the pdf of Comfort’s 50 page foreword. I think this is the original one. When his revised version comes out, let me know so I can link it here!

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DeletedSoul also wrote an article about this issue called There is No War Against christianity. I have to agree with most of what she says there. For instance, I live in the upper buckle of the bible belt. There are more churches than people in my sleepy little town (slight hyperbole, but you get the point) and I am surrounded by religious people everywhere I go. I am very much a minority as an atheist, so much so that I feel like I would suffer unpleasant consequences to stand up more than I already do and declare myself an atheist and a Freethinker.

If you look at the government and all the polls regarding religion over the years, you’ll find that 99.999% of politicians bow down to the christian god, whether just to garner votes or because they believe in the baby jesus, no one will ever know but them. The point is, the American public does not care for atheists, while wearing the label of christian carries with it some cache. It’s not earned or accurate, but still, most people consider christians more moral than atheists, and would vote for a muslim before voting for an atheist, according to the polls. So why christians cry wolf about there being a “war” on christianity is beyond hypocrisy and completely devoid of facts.

A few years ago at christmas eve dinner with my in-laws, one of the extended family attacked Butch when he agreed with his cousin on how America was founded on the rights and principles of the separation of church and state. He calmly told the christian that she was wrong and gave her a few quotes to back his position, but she was nasty and stormed off after some very heated lies spewed forth. What is so disturbing is she was a school teacher and she was happy to lie to her grandchildren that day, and any students she ever had, telling them we are a christian nation, founded by christians and based on christian principles. The good news is, we saw her true colors and her vicious nature then, and she has avoided talking to us ever since, even though we see them for nearly every major holiday.

What vocal and fundamentalist christians can’t seem to get through their heads is that the Separation of church and State benefits them just as much as us heathens. But that’s not good enough for them. They have to resort to distorting facts and claiming they know what Thomas Jefferson meant when he wrote his letters.

Here, let me explain it this way. Let’s say you’re a baptist. Let’s say the First Amendment is thrown away and now we are officially a christian nation. But the president is a catholic and now we all have to go to mass and confess our sins once a week at a state sanctioned church. We have to raise our kids catholic, and all the little things that are different between your baptist beliefs and government sanctioned catholicism get thrown out the window. You will go to jail for secretly practicing baptist heresy, so don’t even consider it.

Or what if the president gets elected then tells everyone he is a muslim, or decides it’s best if the country is muslim for political reasons! We all must convert to islam within 15 days and start praying 5 times a day and all the other nonsense. Women can no longer drive or hold high level jobs. They get married to men at the age of 9, ready to give up their virginity. At age 9, just like mohammed, who is now your prophet. And if you fail to pray 5 times a day or if you show any signs of going against islam or practicing any type of christianity, you get stoned to death. That’s theocracy.

The Separation of church and State means that religious people get to practice any religion they want. Or if someone doesn’t believe in gods, they don’t have to follow any religion. It’s for everyone’s benefit. It’s that simple. So please, if you’re a christian, stop moaning and whining about something you don’t seem to understand. This is for the benefit of all of us.

Here are some links for you:

Thomas Jefferson first wrote about the term Separation of church and State in 1802, where he clarified what the First Amendment was all about regarding religion and politics.

Here is the conversation between DeletedSoul and the christian, and my comment. She had to pull the thread from her facebook account because apparently it got kind of ugly. Unfortunately I didn’t get to read any more than this…

Deleted Soul joined the cause: Americans United for Separation of Church and State

The christian:
…AU’s primary task is educating the American public about the importance of religious liberty through the separation of church and state and defending that crucial constitutional principle against attacks by extremist Religious Right groups such as the Christian Coalition….NO AGENDA HERE!

The christian:
“Jefferson believed that God, not government, was the Author and Source of our rights and that the government, therefore, was to be prevented from interference with those rights. Very simply, the “fence” of the Webster letter and the “wall” of the Danbury letter were not to limit religious activities in public; rather they were to limit the power of the government to prohibit or interfere with those expressions.”
..while wanting to see the government prohibited from interfering with or limiting religious activities, they also had declared it a legitimate function of government “to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor.” …offenses for which government could intrude included human sacrifice, polygamy, bigamy, concubinage, incest, infanticide, parricide, advocation and promotion of immorality, etc.
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=123     

Nice smiley faces. How passive aggressive is that?

DeletedSoul:
“WallBuilders’ goal is to exert a direct and positive influence in government, education, and the family by (1) educating the nation concerning the Godly foundation of our country; (2) providing information to federal, state, and local officials as they develop public policies which reflect Biblical values; and (3) encouraging Christians to be involved in the civic arena. ” No Agenda Here! Of course, Wallbuilders is a corporation, so I think their ultimate goal is to make money, most likely.

Of course every organization such as these have an agenda – there would be truly no point.

I do support a strict separation of church and state for various reasons. I had written a couple lengthy comments here, but after 2 1/2 I decided to stop because I would end up sitting here all morning.

I have more about this subject on my blog. – feel free to read and comment there! It doesn’t truncate comments, so it’s a lot easier to have a discussion.

The christian:
Wallbuilders is a corporation, so I think their ultimate goal is to make money, most likely. …
Making money is a great thing though, don’t you think? I think everyone should make as much as they can possibly can. Except the government, of course, which doesn’t produce anything yet steals money from its MOST industrious citizens who do work hard to earn every dime. But, I digress… I have the option of ignoring stuff that comes across my feed or address issues that yank my chain. I’ve decided, in this day when history is being spun for political expediency and shameless power grabbing, to express my opinion or offer counter-information. I guess you believe that the government should protect you from the very spooky extremist Religious Right like the Christian Coalition (www.cc.org) (and,me, I guess). I’m harmless, really. Not as spooky as you think. Now, I have two young boys to train up to be mighty, Godly warriors for Truth in this ever-darkening world they are growing up in.

The end of this paragraph set my teeth on edge. And count the logical fallacies, people!

DeletedSoul:
Christian Coalition is pretty far up there on my list of “Who Not to Support”; most of their agendas are directly opposite of my own views. I see more negative aspects than positive ones in the organization, with a few exceptions, especially their support of Net Neutrality, which is certainly an important issue. However, I would not expect the government to “protect” me from any “scary” organizations, but I would not want my tax dollars supporting such an organization in any way.

When I left my comment below, DS was leaving this comment, so I didn’t see it yet.

Me:
You can pretend to know what someone was thinking hundreds of years ago if you like. But Jefferson and the Founding Fathers were pretty clear that this country was founded on freedom of religion and FROM religion.
Quoting propaganda and half truths from obviously biased organizations proves nothing, except that you wish to propagate bigotry and lies in the name of your god.
Indoctrination of children into a belief system is not the same as raising healthy kids to think for themselves. Might as well get a puppy to follow you like a shadow and do exactly what you want. Or a puppet to parrot your views word for word.

As you can see, I was rather “direct”. DS messaged me and said thanks, then the next morning she deleted the whole thread. Sorry for getting a bit heated there. I’m just a human being after all. (that’s from an X-Files episode)

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If the zombie easter bunny attacked you, I’d feel eggstra sad.

Jesus Christ, King of the World, the Coming Resurrection, Sunday March 11, 2pm…. CANCELLED

Me so thorny… LOL!

Thanks for dying Jesus, this candy is AWESOME!

Let’s talk about this need to be accepted by everyone.

He’s no good to be dead, LOL

Even Jesus hates you.

The Passion of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

BRB, LOL, ROFL, WTF?, OMFG!, Nom Nom!, Woot!

The Last Peep Supper

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Here’s to an interesting year coming to a close, and the beginning of a fresh new year full of change and promise.

I hope you’re all having fun with your celebrations and being safe getting to and from any parties.

This change is really just an arbitrary moment in time. A time to take stock, and a time to celebrate.

Next year will be awesome. I know, that’s my optimism speaking, but we’ll make it the best year it can be.

Thank you for helping me be my best this year. Luvz U guyz!

Aww, damnit, I was aiming for posting at exactly midnight. But my awesome husband just called to wish me a Happy New Year. Damn, I love that guy. Ok, thank you again for being such great readers and commenters. Suggestions always welcome, as are guest posters.

Since I’m already late, how about one more lolcat? Let’s see if I can find a really good one. (actually the optimist pessimist is one of my favs at the moment )

HAPPY NEW YEAR! It’s 2009!

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This is ludicrous and terribly backwards. By labeling us, they have started the “holy war” against atheists. Not us. In my 39 years, I’ve never met a militant atheist. But I have seen and dealt with many militant, close-minded, hateful, fundamentalist religious folks.

So words are very important.

Hess was looking up synonyms for atheist on Dictionary.com for our new project (as you can see, we settled on Heaving Dead Cats) and pointed out something rather irritating.

atheist – noun:
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Then it conveniently lists synonyms.

Synonyms: Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. Infidel means an unbeliever, especially a nonbeliever in Islam or Christianity. A skeptic doubts and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds.

Ok, this isn’t so bad. This is from Dictionary.com’s first listing.

But down near the bottom of that page, Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary has a quote about atheism:

Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. –R. Hall.

Ok, I’m not trying to nitpick, but that quote is ridiculous. First, it’s completely false, and second, it’s negative and biased. When giving a quote that helps explain a word, wouldn’t it be more useful and more positive to use a neutral thought, or even a positive one?

The Online Etymology Dictionary in the middle of the page was able to do just that:

“The existence of a world without God seems to me less absurd than the presence of a God, existing in all his perfection, creating an imperfect man in order to make him run the risk of Hell.” [Armand Salacrou, "Certitudes et incertitudes," 1943]

Ok, over to the Thesaurus tab and this is interesting as well.

atheist has 3 synonyms: agnostic, heathen, pagan.
Are you kidding me? Agnostic and atheist are 2 completely different ways of thinking. We’ll have to define heathen and pagan.

heathen‘s second definition is: 2. an irreligious, uncultured, or uncivilized person.

Down to Websters’s to see how they list heathen:
1. An individual of the pagan or unbelieving nations, or those which worship idols and do not acknowledge the true God; a pagan; an idolater.

Now onto pagan:
1. one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks.
2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.
3. an irreligious or hedonistic person.

I’ve always thought of pagans as having many gods. But I see the term has come to mean not christian, jew or muslim. So in that respect it fits.

Of course, Webster’s is less objective:
1. An individual of the pagan or unbelieving nations, or those which worship idols and do not acknowledge the true God; a pagan; an idolater.

Ok then. Good to know. Call me a heathen or a pagan. The terms loosely fit. But I’m an atheist through and through. Definitely not an agnostic.

But I’ve learned that Webster’s dictionary is quite biased towards christianity. Good for us to know!

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